MARIAN WRIGHT EDELMAN YOU CAN’T BE WHAT YOU CAN’T SEE. “ ” In Weil Women’s Wisdom, leaders from across offices and departments reflect on their personal and professional journeys and the lessons they learned along the way. Our goal is to inspire and reassure women starting their careers, or at key transition points, by sharing advice and perspective from those who have come before them. Too often, we see leaders only as they are now, not recognizing that they had to learn from mistakes and overcome fears and selfdoubt to get where they are. Read on to learn about the wide range of leadership styles, backgrounds and experiences among our women leaders. Together, they demonstrate there is no one way to the top.
PARTNER, COMPLEX COMMERCIAL LITIGATION NEW YORK LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 2010 YEAR JOINED WEIL 2012 YEAR PROMOTED TO PARTNER 2020 HOMETOWN LOS ANGELES, CA What did you want to be as a child? When I was very, very young, Baywatch was a big deal, so I wanted to be a lifeguard! That never came to fruition. Then, starting from probably middle school or so, I thought about being a lawyer. Those are the only two things I ever really considered. I did not become a lifeguard but I did become a lawyer. If your younger self could see you now, what do you think her reaction would be? Before I applied and went to law school I did not understand the private practice of law and the work I am doing now. So I think she would be incredibly proud, but she would be also a little surprised by the path that I’ve taken. What was your first job? I was a receptionist for a doctor in Chinatown on the weekends when I was 15. My sister had the job before me, and she passed it on. I have three sisters, and we shared a bunch of jobs in high school. Knowing what you know now, what might you have done differently when you were starting out? I definitely would have spoken up more. It is easy to think that clients or partners do not really want to hear from you, but you have to add value, and part of adding value is contributing. That is what they are paying you for. It is important for people to learn how to speak up, especially women. Looking back, what did you stress over that was unnecessary? I have a tattoo on my wrist — it is very obvious. For a long time I would try to hide it with watches and wear long sleeves in the summer, but then after a while I just stopped caring and no one else seemed to care either! What were some of your insecurities or fears when you were starting out that you wish you could go back in time and tell your younger self not to worry so much about? I would not worry so much about credentials. Your law school is important, obviously, but the training you get here at Weil is what really shapes you into the lawyer that you eventually become. In moments of self-doubt or adversity, how do you build yourself up? I would think about my parents, what it took for them to get here. They were immigrants. They came from nothing to a foreign country, and they sacrificed a lot. They could not give us everything, but they gave us a chance and an opportunity. Whatever I was going through would pale in comparison to what they went through. Now I think about my daughter, Ava, and the kind of world I want her to live in and the example I want to be for her. What is the best piece of professional advice you have received? Own your decisions. You have to be confident in the decisions that you make, especially when you are counseling and clients are looking to you for advice. What does success mean to you? How has your definition of success evolved over time? When I was younger, success was just having some financial stability because I didn’t grow up with much. But now, it’s evolved. I worked at a firm between law school and undergrad. There was a partner at this firm who gifted me her old laptop before I started law school. She said it was a privilege for her to be in a position to be able to give something back to somebody. For me, now, success is recognizing and understanding that I have an ability to give back. What is your greatest success? Well, partnership is up there, that is a big one! In addition, the pro bono trial we did in Arizona (challenging a statute that would have eliminated Mexican-American studies and then donating the fees to related nonprofits) with Steven Reiss and Jim Quinn was huge for me because I grew up primarily around Mexican-Americans. It felt like we were giving back to some very deserving people and we were correcting a wrong that should have never happened in the first place. And obviously my family too — balancing a family, a husband, a daughter, with partnership. I feel like all of that is hard, but it is a success. It is difficult for women to do, and we should be proud of it. What is the biggest sacrifice you’ve made and was it worth it? I think the biggest sacrifice I made was moving away from my family in California. At the end of the day it was worth it, but it is difficult to be away from your parents and your siblings. Now that we are older, my daughter has cousins, and we just do not get to see them as often as we would like. I still miss my family a lot, but thank God for FaceTime! Anything else you want to share? I really hope that we women can forge a path for each other and support each other, because there are not that many of us across the legal industry. It is important for people to learn how to speak up, especially women. “ ” 2 · WEIL WOMEN’S WISDOM
PARTNER, RESTRUCTURING NEW YORK LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 2001 YEAR JOINED WEIL 2002 YEAR PROMOTED TO PARTNER 2010 HOMETOWN QUEENS, NY (UNTIL 12), THEN VIRGINIA BEACH, VA What did you want to be as a child? I was one of those kids who wanted to be a lawyer since the age of 5 or so. It’s because I was always arguing, negotiating, grilling adults with questions, and pointing out injustices (such as how unfair it was that my sister received a larger piece of cake than I did), and people said, “With your mouth, you should be a lawyer.” In college, I discovered a strong interest in economics and business, and boom, I was going to be a corporate lawyer. I never seriously considered doing anything else. What was your first job? My father owned IHOP restaurant franchises, so from my early teens, I worked at IHOP – starting as a hostess, then cashier, then waitress. Describe a time when you had to make an important professional decision and how you went about selecting your course of action. I started my career at a large Boston firm as a general corporate lawyer. I had decided that the New York “rat race” was not for me and, during the peak of the dot-com boom, corporate M&A seemed the perfect fit for me. My first day of work was September 10, 2001, meaning my second day of work was September 11. A recession was beginning, which meant corporate work was drying up. Being an eager beaver and having prepared myself with a lifetime of education to be in the position to use my brain to help clients and add value, I was miserable with having so little real work to do. After months of begging for work (which felt like squeezing water from a stone), I went to talk to the law school professor with whom I was closest, Professor Elizabeth Warren (yes, that same one, but she was not the household name she is now). She told me that I should just find a new job and leave that firm, even though I was only a first-year associate. And, given that I had done well in bankruptcy class and we were in a recession, why not try bankruptcy? Despite some initial reservations, I took her advice seriously, I did my research, and I figured I had nothing to lose by taking a leap. And in less than two months, moved to New York to start a position as a bankruptcy associate at Weil. Looking back, what did you stress over that was unnecessary? I was worried that people would think I was a flake for making such a big career change so young. But I learned, as Professor Warren suggested to me, that this is easier to do when you are young and just starting out, and I had a good story (which was also the truth). If you are not happy and it doesn’t look like things will improve, then it’s best to make a change sooner rather than later. What’s the best piece of professional advice you received? A female mentor once told me that one of the best things you can do if you feel slighted or annoyed by the way someone treats you is to ignore it; just be tough. The world is the way it is and not always the way it should be. If you let every bit of unfairness bother you, you will be wasting time, energy, and brain cells on things that are holding you back rather than things that will get you ahead. That’s not to say that you shouldn’t speak up for yourself, report mistreatment, or fight for real change, but not every incident is worthy of a real reaction. Letting it go is actually quite liberating. What does success mean to you? How has your definition of success evolved over time? For me, success means being a very good lawyer, providing great service to my clients, and adding value to any situation I am involved in, while also being true to my values. I used to wonder, naively, whether you could be a “good person” and still get ahead at a Big Law firm, and I made a decision at the very outset of my career that the ends do not justify the means – that I wouldn’t do “whatever it takes” to get ahead, especially trampling on other people as I climbed the ladder. If that meant that my career stagnated, I would choose another path. Thankfully, I learned that if you find the right environment, being a team player and a role model to others is valued and rewarded. That was the case for me at Weil, which is why I feel so at home here. What is your greatest success? My first big case at Weil was WorldCom, the largest bankruptcy case ever filed at the time. The case was led by Marcia Goldstein, who was the head of our group. I worked hard and learned a great deal from Marcia, whom I admired immensely. Fast forward almost 15 years, and Marcia and I were the lead Weil restructuring partners on the Takata case, one of the most complex Thankfully, I learned that if you find the right environment, being a team player and a role model to others is valued and rewarded. “ ” cross-border restructurings ever, and the Weil team achieved a successful result for the client. The feeling of jumping from first year associate to lead partner with Marcia (with 15 years of hard work in between) was the first time I felt “I made it.” I was recognized by Law360 as an MVP for my work on that deal, and I am super grateful to the firm for having provided me that opportunity, and to Marcia for having let me take such a lead role on the case. What is the biggest sacrifice you’ve made and was it worth it? To be successful at a Big Law firm, you must inevitably sacrifice some personal time. You are not going to make every dinner with friends, watch hours of TV a day, or see your kids every morning and every night. To do the most complex, cutting-edge legal work, you will be dealing with “fire drills” and urgent deadlines, and those will cut into your personal life. But is it worth it? Absolutely for me. But the way I see it, every choice involves sacrifice. I know myself; I couldn’t be happy without also being busy and intellectually challenged. So you make sacrifices, but you also make choices to try to get the best of all worlds. I went on a flex-time schedule for two years when I felt I needed it after my second child was born, and then went back to full time once I felt I could manage it. I leave the office at 5:30 p.m. numerous times a week (most weeks) to spend time with my kids and get back online by 8 p.m. When I am with my kids, I am present and I try to maximize the quality of that time. And the kids have a happy, fulfilled mom (and hopefully a good role model too). 4 · WEIL WOMEN’S WISDOM
PARTNER, PATENT LITIGATION SILICON VALLEY LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 1995 YEAR JOINED WEIL 1995 YEAR PROMOTED TO PARTNER 2010 HOMETOWN NAPERVILLE, IL What did you want to be as a child? When I was young, I wanted to be a detective and then a doctor. By high school, I was heavily involved in theater and science but chose engineering because my uncle, who was an engineering professor at Purdue University, advised me that I could do anything with an electrical engineering degree (although I’m not sure he had practicing law in mind). If your young self could see you now, what do you think her reaction would be? She would never have expected to see me as a lawyer, since she was choosing between college scholarships for costume design and engineering in high school. And a law firm partner was only something she saw on TV. Knowing what you know now, what might you have done differently when you were starting out? First, I would have told my younger self to take a more active role in my career instead of letting it occur organically. Second, I did not have a support network at work until late in my career after I made partner. I would advise my younger self to develop a support network earlier in my career. Describe a time when you had to make an important professional decision and how you went about selecting your course of action. The first big career decision I made was to leave my job at IBM as an engineer and go to law school. I took the LSAT with little preparation and told myself that I would go to law school if I was accepted into the University of Texas. I moved to Austin and took a leave of absence from IBM in case I didn’t like it or do well. I knew I had found the right career and retired from IBM after my first year. Second, until midway through my third year, I was splitting between patent litigation and counseling. I recognized a need and decided to create a hybrid position that straddled both groups, since neither department was exactly right for me. This hybrid position has proven to be popular with clients. Looking back, what did you stress over that was unnecessary? Deadlines are stressful, but experience helps you to understand what really matters and what can be fixed. I’ve learned not to get rattled, to make decisions quickly and communicate frequently with the team when there are important deadlines. I try to pass that wisdom along to team members to help them make it through stressful deadlines. In moments of self-doubt or adversity, how do you build yourself up? I have been a woman in a man’s world since I was in engineering school. Patent litigation, especially the highly technical cases that I frequently work on, is similarly dominated by men. It has been challenging not losing my identity as a woman while being part of the team. I have a strong support network of men and women at Weil. They bring a fresh perspective and always have sage advice. Knowing that they are there for me gets me through those tough times and long hours. My support network has long included male partners who are confidantes, advisors and mentors. I didn’t really build my female support network until the first year I made partner. Our bonds were forged from the moment a group of junior partners spanning many offices asked me to plan a business development dinner for our female clients in California and have grown stronger ever since. As we worked together on business development, I learned the power of the support network to promote senior women and one another, to develop business and forge deep client relationships, and to give and receive personal and professional advice. Finding that loyalty and support has been key to my career. What do you turn to when you need perspective or to unwind during a challenging time? I unwind with activities that are more physical than mental to give my brain a chance to rest. I often choose yoga, baking or knitting. What’s the best piece of professional advice you received? Follow your passion. The pursuit of it will give you pleasure, and as a result you will excel at whatever you do. What does success mean to you? How has your definition of success evolved over time? I did not join a law firm to make partner (and didn’t really know how law firms worked when I joined). I joined the Firm because I was able to combine my technical and legal skills. Success meant gaining the trust of the partners and being asked to work on critical projects. Success now means building a group of talented lawyers who are respected by clients and our peers. Not being afraid to take risks and make mistakes has helped me grow. “ ” Has learning from a mistake ever led you to success? Many aspects of my career have been driven by luck. My choice of college allowed me to go to school on a full engineering scholarship; I was in the first class after a long hiring freeze by IBM; both my undergraduate and law school roommates had connections to Weil, which led me to apply when we were starting up our Silicon Valley office. Please describe a mistake or failure and how it ultimately helped you learn and grow. Not being afraid to take risks and make mistakes has helped me grow. When I was at trial at the beginning of my second year, the lead attorney had to leave for a few days due to a death in the family. He recommended to the client that I argue a pending motion in his absence. I made a few mistakes due to inexperience, but was delighted when the partners asked me to take on more important roles usually handled by more senior associates. This is how I realized I wanted to be a litigator. 6 · WEIL WOMEN’S WISDOM
HEAD, REGULATORY TRANSACTIONS GROUP & ENVIRONMENTAL PRACTICE CO-CHAIR, PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE WASHINGTON, D.C. LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 1988 YEAR JOINED WEIL 1987 YEAR PROMOTED TO PARTNER 2000 HOMETOWN METHUEN, MA What did you want to be as a child? I wanted to be a reporter. I liked to write, and I thought it was cool to take current events and explain them in a way that could benefit other people. I went to school to be a reporter. What was your first job? Washing tables at a lobster pound at the beach. At what point did you figure out that law was your path? I graduated from journalism school and went to work for a newspaper. I learned quickly that first, you did not make a lot of money in that field, and second, in order to be successful you needed to have some other credentials than just having graduated from Newhouse,* so I decided to apply to law school (much to my parent’s chagrin). My goal going into law school was not to be a lawyer. My goal was to build up my credentials and learn not to see the world in black and white so that I could bring a better perspective to being a reporter (I had hoped to cover government or courts). Then I went to law school, and it was a breeze. I decided that I should go to work as a lawyer. I enjoyed my summer at Weil – working at a firm was not something I had even thought about before. Some of the partners here suggested that if I wanted to go into another field, I should come to Weil for at least a few years to pay off my student loans and then move on to something else. I’ve been here ever since. I fell into a practice that I liked, and I was able to do many different things as an associate. I got to work on the regulatory side of the big American Airlines cases. I also did environmental law, which was really cool back then because you could do litigation, compliance and deals, which is what I primarily do now. What would younger you say if she could see you now? Wow, you really went in a different direction! I am quite liberal, and I really did always think that I would do something that was more in the public realm. She would be surprised that I didn’t stick to my plan to get the degree and work with the Boston Globe or Providence Journal. My younger self would be surprised that I was able to thrive in the legal field because I was enjoying it. When you think back to when you started out, is there anything that you would have done differently? I might have explored other opportunities. I got comfortable with what I was doing. The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. I would tell my younger self that it is O.K. to say “no.” I spent my younger days as an associate trying to do everything. I am like a sponge – there were many areas of law that I found interesting, so if there were opportunities that no one else would take, I did them. I sacrificed time with friends and family by not knowing how to say “no.” Looking back, what did you stress over that was unnecessary? I stressed about everything. I went to bed every night thinking that I did everything wrong. It took me a while to learn that not everything comes with affirmations – that knowing you did a good job needs to come from within. Now I try hard not to stress over things that are outside of my control. Today, I tell myself: “You can only do what you can do. There are things that are out of your control, and you have to accept that you just can’t do everything.” What does success mean to you? Success has a variety of factors. Success is balancing my life so that I do well at the office, take care of my clients and work well with my colleagues, and yet I make time for the people who are important to me. Because part of success for me is taking the time to smell the flowers. It’s nice to be honored by your peer groups, and I’ve gotten some of those honors; however, for me, success is to go home at night and feel like I did a good job and enjoy some time with family and friends. Has that changed over time? My idea of success early on was notching little victories – it was all about the to-do list and checking everything off. As I have gotten older, success is much broader and provides a little bit more peace. When I didn’t make partner the first time … it was devastating. I had been told all along that it was my future. I was a little worker bee, and I was very good at what I did. I did the extra things, all of the things you are supposed to do for success, and I did them well – but there wasn’t a business case for it. It was as if someone pulled the rug out from under me and I had no control over it. So I said to myself, “You could go to another firm, you could quit and do something else, you could go back to reporting.” Then I realized that I loved what I did. I had to learn to accept that my success has to come from me and not validation from others. How do you build your confidence back up when you begin to doubt yourself? At this stage in my career, I’m pretty good at what I do. When I am stressed, depending on the nature of the stress, I rely on my peers. At times I might just need a pick-me-up – I have a number of female colleagues that I can count on to provide me with perspective, or just to say “it’s O.K.” When it comes to subject matter, I rely on the people with whom I work. I am very comfortable saying I don’t know it all. I am confident in my abilities, but I am very open to the fact that the best solutions come from diverse ideas. If I’m stressed about a project, I’m going to walk into the office of one of the folks I work with and say “What do you think? Am I off-base? Do I not know what I’m talking about? Is there a different perspective that I’m not seeing that I should think about?” I’m not afraid at all to go to the people who are my peers and my pals to deal with my insecurities and doubts when it comes to work. I would tell younger Annemargaret to find a mentor, find people who are there to help you and be a team player yourself. I do a little bit of work with an organization called the Posse Foundation. One of the things I like about the organization is that it teaches kids that our success is often dependent upon teams – we’re not successful just on our own. My advice to my younger self is to find your “posse,” that team that will have your back, and you will go far. My advice to my younger self is to find your ‘posse,’ that team that will have your back, and you will go far. “ ” * The Newhouse School of Public Communications at Syracuse University 8 · WEIL WOMEN’S WISDOM
CHIEF TALENT OFFICER NEW YORK LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 1993 YEAR JOINED WEIL 2004 YEAR PROMOTED TO CTO 2014 HOMETOWN BROOKLYN, NY What did you want to be as a child? When I was very young, I wanted to be a television star or a famous make-up artist. Later on, I set my sights on becoming a teacher or a doctor. It wasn’t until high school and college when the idea of becoming a lawyer began to take hold. What was your first job? Cashier at a small furniture store in Brooklyn. I was 14 years old. What was your worst job? I worked for a headhunting agency that placed stockbrokers. My job involved cold calling New York City brokerage firms in order to obtain their lists of stockbrokers. It was just awful. Alas, there was no internet back then. If your young self could see you now, what do you think her reaction would be? And what advice would you give her? I think my young self would be literally blown away. Growing up in Williamsburg, I wasn’t exposed to many people who went to college or had professional degrees. Most kids just wanted to graduate from high school. Attending NYU and Fordham Law would have sounded absurd, if not totally impossible. Thankfully, there was something inside that younger me that refused to settle. She went for it and succeeded. Interestingly enough, she followed the advice I would have given her – never sell yourself short. There are enough people out there who will do that for you. It’s your job to prove them wrong! The only other bit of advice I would give her is to seriously consider participating in more extracurricular, non-academic activities while you can. In retrospect, I believe I may have had more diverse job opportunities and career choices if I had exposed myself to more experiences beyond the classroom, such as study abroad and community service. Knowing what you know now, what might you have done differently when you were starting out? Once I decided to become a lawyer, I made the mistake of not asking the kinds of questions or finding the types of experiences necessary to truly understand what a career as a practicing attorney would mean. Again, I focused solely on the required academics and didn’t look beyond that. Knowing what I know now, I would do everything I could to explore the different career paths that a degree in law could lead to. I would do volunteer work, find internships, do research, join organizations – anything that could have helped me better understand my options. Sadly, I wasn’t able to do many of those things because I had to work to put myself through school. Still, I wish it had occurred to me to find paid work in the legal field rather than in my university’s bursar’s office collecting tuition, day in and day out. At any point, did you regret the choice to go to law school? Yes. I questioned my choice while working as a criminal prosecutor, but I never considered quitting because that’s just not how I was raised. I made a commitment. I made a choice, and I had to see it through. Today, I would tell my young self that there are always options. There is always another path. What were some of your insecurities or fears when you were starting out that you wish you could go back in time and advise yourself on, knowing what you know now? I was completely and utterly ill-prepared for my position as a young prosecutor in the Bronx District Attorney’s office. I accepted the job as an idealist – hoping to do “good,” to help people and, most importantly, serve my community. I was privileged to work with some remarkable people in the Bronx DA’s office, but there was also an underside to the work that was extremely challenging and difficult to manage at times. Those first few years were really tough for me but, as I’ve said before, I am not a quitter. I stayed at the Bronx DA’s office for seven years. Given the challenges, I did some great legal work in the Bronx that I’m very proud of. I argued at the New York Court of Appeals and the Second Circuit within my first few years there. I also was part of a team that filed a writ of certiorari to the Supreme Court of the United States! From the very beginning, I worked hard at my job and gave my legal career 110% because I didn’t know anything else. I soon realized that it wasn’t enough. I didn’t love the work I was doing, and I knew that I would never feel truly successful and fulfilled if I didn’t also feel passionate about what I was doing. My advice to young Lisa would be: find a mentor. Talk to people and get the support you need. Create a professional network so that you can find what you love sooner than later. How did you cope with those difficulties early in your career? My mantra during those years was: “Hold on. This is just for now.” I had to believe that things would get better, one way or another. And they did. What does success mean to you? How has your definition of success evolved over time? When I was in high school and college, success was defined by the accumulation of wealth and prestige. Now, I define success as the undeniable sense of satisfaction in a job well done and a never-ending passion for the work I do every single day. Never sell yourself short. There are enough people out there who will do that for you. It’s your job to prove them wrong! “ ” WEIL WOMEN’S WISDOM · 11
PARTNER, RESTRUCTURING LONDON LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 2008 YEAR JOINED WEIL 2022 YEAR PROMOTED TO PARTNER 2020 HOMETOWN LONDON What did you want to be as a child? In no particular or credible order: a doctor, an author, Steffi Graf, a comedian, a painter and one of the principal cast members of Starlight Express. I was incredibly openminded. If your younger self could see you now, what do you think her reaction would be? Where are your roller skates? I think I would be quite surprised I had ended up being a lawyer of any kind, but I was always hard working and academic as well as creative and argumentative, so perhaps I should have predicted I would be suited to restructuring. What might surprise people about your middle school and high school years? I loved heavy metal. My hearing is now terrible. What was your worst job? I spent a summer working in a café in the week, and then working in a barbers at the weekend. In the café, I had to boil chickens until all the meat fell off, then scoop it out and mash it up with mayonnaise for chicken and mayonnaise sandwiches. The smell of grey, boiled chicken and mayonnaise will stay with me forever. In the barbers, I had to clean the toilets (which I noticed practically every customer seemed to need to use), as well as clean the sinks and floor. Experiencing what it’s like to be the person doing those jobs taught me very early to be polite to people serving you in a café, or cleaning the bathrooms. They endure a lot. Knowing what you know now, what might you have done differently when you were starting out? I would have asked more questions and been a bit braver. I would have done a secondment to a client. I would have taken more holidays. What do you love most about Weil? The people I work with. I have great partners and colleagues and everybody is bright, fun and motivated. There are some incredible lawyers in the firm. What do you turn to when you need perspective or to unwind during a challenging time? My children, because they are funny and still want to be with me regardless of what is going on at work. I have made a concerted effort to raise them not to take themselves too seriously, and to be silly and affectionate and laugh a lot so that they learn to cope with their worries and challenges that way. We talk about our days and doing that helps me forget about mine, or allows me to hear how inherently pathetic some grown-up things are when you try to explain them to a child. Recently, my five-year old sent me some homework which replicated the homework he had been sent. It was cutting and sticking random numbers in ascending order. He said with a lot of glee, “See mummy, see how boring this is? This is what I have to do at school! It’s so boring, isn’t it?!” It certainly put reviewing a global deed of release into perspective. What advice would you give associates trying to make pivotal decisions in their careers? Spend a lot of time thinking strategically, analyzing it from every angle, weighing up the pros and the cons, doing your research and gathering information to help inform the decision. Seek advice from people you trust, and from people who have no skin in the game. Then sit with it for a bit. Then go with your gut instinct and do not look back. What is your greatest success? Marrying my husband and having lovely children. What is the biggest sacrifice you’ve made and was it worth it? I worked incredibly hard in my twenties and thirties: I took work very seriously and before I had children I put it first almost all the time. I think it has been worth it and I would have approached any career that way because it’s my nature. But it’s not for everybody. Who were your role models and how did they influence you? I don’t have role models as such – just lots of people I have worked with that I think are great at their jobs in various ways, and from whom I have tried to learn something or take best practice. Bad role models can have just as powerful an effect on you as good ones. There were some appalling characters early in my career, who went about things in such the wrong way and I learned from those experiences just as much. How does your personal background impact your work? I don’t assume I am entitled to be here: I still have a healthy sense of being a slight outsider. My parents have very, very strong work ethics and personal integrity. It is only now that I am older that I see how much it influences how I work and think about work. Go with your gut instinct and do not look back. “ ”
PARTNER, TAX LONDON LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 2000 YEAR JOINED WEIL 2019 YEAR PROMOTED TO PARTNER 2014 HOMETOWN DERRY, NORTHERN IRELAND What did you want to be as a child? When I was about 6 or 7, I wanted to have two jobs when I grew up: a vet during the daytime and a stand-up comedian in the evenings. While tax law does not present the same opportunities for animals or hilarity, I am undoubtedly more suited to it (and one job is quite enough)! If your younger self could see you now, what do you think her reaction would be? I was 9 years old when I first visited London and was completely captivated by it. I loved the old buildings and squares in “legal London,” the cultural diversity and the “buzz.” I concluded that I was definitely going to live there when I grew up. My younger self would be impressed that I am a true London lawyer (and living in an old townhouse)! What was your first job? It was selling vacuum cleaners door-todoor during the summer holidays when I was at university. It was pretty brutal. It was commission-based, and I hated having to pressure people to buy the expensive machines. Taking into account petrol, I ended up making a loss that summer, which shows quite how bad I was at it, but it was definitely an interesting experience! Knowing what you know now, what might you have done differently when you were starting out? I’ve found that colleagues (at all levels) are often “pigeonholed” by others as being of a particular type. This can result in unhealthy behaviours; for example, allocating one person a particular type of work, or dismissing someone’s comments too readily. Over the years I have learnt to try not to make assumptions about people. This had broadened the spectrum of colleagues and clients who I have formed deep working relationships with. It’s now a cliché, but working with a diverse group of people with different qualities certainly yields results. Looking back, what did you stress over that was unnecessary? Moving careers. I have done it twice and both times found the process stressful. But in both cases I have never regretted the decision to move, so the stress was worthwhile! What were some of your insecurities/ fears when you were starting out that you wish you could go back in time and tell your younger self not to worry so much about? There are many times throughout my career when I worried about whether I was capable of doing the job and it’s easy to get overwhelmed by the complexity of transactions and the amounts at stake. However, I now realise that I’m not alone, and that many people experience similar worries. In moments of self-doubt or adversity, how do you build yourself up? In our environment we are often working under pressure, and colleagues, clients or opposing counsel can also be under a tremendous amount of pressure to achieve a deadline or a particular result. When feeling the pressure, I try to take a step back and remember this context. Talking things through with colleagues, rather than bottling them up, inevitably helps. Things are rarely as bad as they might seem in the heat of the moment! What do you turn to when you need perspective or to unwind during a challenging time? Running. The temptation is sometimes to think “I don’t have time,” but I find that often solutions occur to me when I am out jogging and have stopped staring at a problem on the screen. What’s the best piece of professional advice you received? People worry about the risk of taking an action, but often forget about the risk of not acting. I think that’s valuable to remember whether in a career progression context (e.g., making a job move, contacting a potential client), giving legal advice (e.g., expressing a firm opinion on a point) or developing a team (e.g., giving feedback). Has learning from a mistake ever led you to success? Undoubtedly, yes. We all make mistakes, and it’s those who learn from them to develop, rather than being beaten down by them, who will be most successful. We all make mistakes, and it’s those who learn from them to develop, rather than being beaten down by them, who will be most successful. “ ” 14 · WEIL WOMEN’S WISDOM
PARTNER, COMPLEX COMMERCIAL LITIGATION AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY & MEDIA NEW YORK LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 2009 YEAR JOINED WEIL 2010 YEAR PROMOTED TO PARTNER 2019 HOMETOWN BAYSIDE, NY What did you want to be as a child? Having watched my beloved Grandma Cookie fall victim to colon cancer, I grew up wanting to be a doctor. A.P. Biology quickly taught me that I didn’t have the knack (or the stomach) for it. Around the same time, though, was the Bush v. Gore Supreme Court decision – I thought it was fascinating that legal arguments were going to decide the fate of the presidential election (and was particularly enamored with Justice Ginsburg’s dissent). That put me on the path to law school. If your younger self could see you now, what do you think her reaction would be? I think she’d be impressed. I have a wonderful family, including a supportive and loving husband and a beautiful son, and I’m partner at one of the world’s top law firms. It’s quite a change from my days watching Saved by the Bell. What was your first job? I worked at a small law firm my senior year of high school and returned over my winter and summer breaks up until joining Weil as a summer associate. I received amazing mentoring and guidance, as well as significant insight into the practice of litigation. It was not only a rewarding job but a valuable learning experience. Looking back, what did you stress over that was unnecessary? I agonized over my first semester 1L grades. I had done well, but not as well as I had hoped in one class, and that was all I could focus on. I remember calling my mom crying – I wish I hadn’t reacted so strongly. Thankfully my mom was there as always to provide support (and also tell me I was being ridiculous – which I was). In moments of self-doubt or adversity, how do you build yourself up? I remember that I’ve made it where I am for a reason. Even if something doesn’t come together easily at first, it doesn’t mean that it won’t. I also have a fantastic support system within Weil and at home, which always helps! What’s the best piece of professional advice you received? You can always keep learning. Becoming partner isn’t the end of the road. You continue to develop and enhance your skillset. I look forward to what I will learn in the years ahead! What does success mean to you? How has your definition of success evolved over time? Success to me, professionally, means looking forward to coming to work each day. I wake up excited for that day’s challenges and feel incredibly blessed to be working at a firm with such brilliant minds and terrific people. I remember that I’ve made it where I am for a reason. Even if something doesn’t come together easily at first, it doesn’t mean that it won’t. “ ”
What does success mean to you? How has your definition of success evolved over time? Decide what you want – personally and professionally. Then go for it and believe that you can achieve it – until you can’t. Then stop, reflect, reset and ultimately pivot to either go around the obstacle or go toward a new goal. Each time you just need to keep going after what you want and pivoting to determine a new path to get where you want to go in all the parts of your life. RETIRED PARTNER, TAX, EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION & BENEFITS LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 1981 YEAR JOINED WEIL 1984 YEAR PROMOTED TO PARTNER 1989 HOMETOWN FAIRLAWN, NJ What did you want to be as a child? I wanted to be a psychologist. I was the one others turned to for advice. “Helyn Help Us” was the phrase my friends came up with. But I was concerned that as a psychologist, I might end up working with someone for many years and still not be able to solve their problems! I knew that would be too frustrating for me. So I decided to become a lawyer instead – that way I could still give advice and get concrete results. What was a lesson you learned the hard way? My final semester in college I had to complete my science requirement to graduate. I took anatomy, which was really for pre-med majors. Honestly, I took it because my boyfriend at the time was pre-med. There was a two-part final – I knew I could study and cram enough to pass the classroom final, but it wasn’t going to be enough to pass the lab final. I had the hubris to think I could talk my professor into passing me, but she wouldn’t. So even though I could walk in graduation, I hadn’t technically graduated. And I wasn’t able to start at law school that fall without completing my requirement and graduating, so I had to take a summer school class. I learned to have some humility and remember that there are rules that need to be followed whether I really cared about them or not. What was your first job? I was a waitress. I was good at being a greeter and taking orders, but not at the serving and clearing part, so I didn’t last long. Looking back, what did you stress over that was unnecessary? There were times when I felt that I wasn’t doing enough at either work or at home. I was too hard on myself, expecting to be able to do everything in both areas at the same time. I would have given myself a break. Please describe a mistake or failure and how it ultimately helped you learn and grow. As a young associate at my first firm, I had to draft a memo for a client who was about to get on a plane for a meeting that she needed the information for. I stayed up all night to write up the memo, and I made two copies, dropping one off at the client’s apartment before she left and keeping one for myself. Later that day, I reread the memo and noticed a wrong word that was a significant change in meaning in an important sentence in the memo. There were no emails or cellphones for me to get in touch with the client. I contacted the partner, who went to great lengths to reach the client and explain. From then on, I became an incessant proofreader. I also learned the importance of someone “having your back” when you make a mistake. In moments of self-doubt or adversity, how do you build yourself up? We all have an essential nature that comes out in times of stress – for me it’s a positive outlook on life. I assume that it will all work out and that I can make it happen. This can be challenging at times – especially as lawyers. We’re trained to see problems and obstacles, and sometimes when we focus on managing risk, it can keep us from taking the risks we need to take in our lives and careers. What do you turn to when you need perspective or to unwind during a challenging time? Being prepared and organized is how I deal with stress and avoid feeling overwhelmed. Also, I think back to previous examples when I overcame a challenge – relying on my own self-history – to remind myself that I can get through this too. We all have reservoirs of resilience to tap through our past experiences. What advice would you give to others? Enjoy the ride. It’s such a privilege to operate in an environment like this and be able to use your extraordinary abilities and talents. However, don’t let work subsume you or life overwhelm you – have a broader view backwards and forwards. Shop, play tennis, binge watch TV, find whatever you like doing and use it to broaden your perspective and bring enjoyment to your life. I have friends who look back and regret they stopped practicing law, and others who regret making work their whole lives. It’s quite a juggle at times to do both, but it’s worth it. I think back to previous examples when I overcame a challenge – relying on my own selfhistory – to remind myself that I can get through this too. We all have reservoirs of resilience to tap through our past experiences. “ ” 18 · WEIL WOMEN’S WISDOM
What does success mean to you? How has your definition of success evolved over time? Of course it’s changed over time. Coming out of law school, it meant getting a good job. Over time it’s recognition in my field, and I think that’s what lawyers should aim for. To gain recognition you need to be an excellent lawyer, take writing and speaking opportunities, and manage important cases. It’s also important to build a good network in the industry of not only lawyers but bankers and financial institutions who respect you. This is a long-term project. What is the biggest sacrifice you’ve made, and was it worth it? Not spending more time with my son, perhaps not having a second child. I think I have a great relationship with my son, and he grew up respecting my profession. He has a very good attitude about women. And he married a woman who is career-oriented. So I did a good job there. I would never really know if I would have really wanted a second child, so it shouldn’t be a big regret. It was easier career-wise to have only one, because even that is hard to manage. And my son has said he enjoyed being the only child. RETIRED PARTNER, RESTRUCTURING LAW SCHOOL GRADUATION YEAR 1975 YEAR JOINED WEIL 1975 YEAR PROMOTED TO PARTNER 1983 HOMETOWN BROOKLYN, NY What did you want to be as a child? I thought I might end up in some type of teaching role. Some of my relatives were math professors, and I was good at math. But my view changed very quickly when I was in college. I majored in government, which was a typical pre-law major, but did not know what I wanted to do when I graduated. When did you decide to go to law school? I knew a number of classmates planning to go to law school (mostly males), including my then-boyfriend, now husband. I was not enamored with job opportunities for the undergraduate class of 1973. When I was a junior at Cornell University, I asked my advisor about a six-year combined undergrad and law degree that the university was offering because it would be faster and save money. My advisor booked my seat for the LSATs a week later. At the time, I was working with a government professor who was writing a book on the Supreme Court, which allowed me to get credit both in law school and in my major. If your young self could see you now, what do you think her reaction would be? I think she’d be pleased and maybe surprised that I moved in a direction I was not thinking about. I don’t think any girl I knew at the time was thinking about law. Also, I was somewhat shy as a girl, so she’d be surprised that I have successfully practiced law for so long and that I have a strong network and reputation in my field. What was your first job? I worked in high school during the Christmas season as a gift wrapper. Knowing what you know now, what might you have done differently when you were starting out? I wouldn’t have done anything differently in high school, college or law school. By the time I was in high school I understood the need to speak up and make yourself known. I landed here at Weil somewhat by accident. I took my husband’s slot for the interview because I didn’t want him to be punished under the school rules, which provided that if you don’t show up for an interview then you can’t interview for a certain period of time. He’s Mark Goldstein, I’m Marcia Goldstein, so I went to the interview even though I hadn’t signed up for it. I would say that was an element of luck. Looking back, what did you stress over that was unnecessary? I don’t get stressed that easily. I wasn’t so stressed about getting into law school. I decided that if I did not get into the six-year program, I would try again the following year. I was probably most stressed over my son’s college applications, or actually, his nursery school applications! What were some of your insecurities or fears when you were starting out that you wish you could go back in time and tell your younger self not to worry so much about? I did not have any lawyers in my friend group or in my family who could give me advice. As a result, it was not surprising that I had insecurities about my first professional job, how I was doing and what was expected of me. Today, I would tell my younger self to ask questions, work hard and not be stressed. That is easier said than done. In moments of self-doubt or adversity, how do you build yourself up? I’ve learned to stand up for myself. If I think something is right, I stand up for it. An important way to get through any situation is to stand up for what’s right. What do you turn to when you need perspective or to unwind during a challenging time? A break, even if it is doing something after work or on the weekend. Sometimes it may be just a day without thinking about work, if possible. It’s not always possible. What’s the best piece of professional advice you received? To make the client a focal point. To put their needs in the forefront. Also that the client can be your friend, and that creates a potential long-term relationship. This is a service business, so we need to find the right solutions for the client, even if it’s a challenge. We are not here to say no, but to come up with solutions that work. I would tell my younger self to ask questions, work hard, and not be stressed. That is easier said than done. “ ” 20 · WEIL WOMEN’S WISDOM
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